10 comments

  • open-paren 8 days ago
    > FEX allows you to run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices, similar to qemu-user and box64. It offers broad compatibility with both 32-bit and 64-bit binaries, and it can be used alongside Wine/Proton to play Windows games.

    > It supports forwarding API calls to host system libraries like OpenGL or Vulkan to reduce emulation overhead. An experimental code cache helps minimize in-game stuttering as much as possible. Furthermore, a per-app configuration system allows tweaking performance per game, e.g. by skipping costly memory model emulation. We also provide a user-friendly FEXConfig GUI to explore and change these settings.

    > On the technical side, FEX features an advanced binary recompiler that supports all modern extensions of the x86(-64) instruction set, including AVX/AVX2. The heart of this recompiler is a custom IR that allows us to generate more optimized code than a traditional splatter JIT. A comprehensive system call translation layer takes care of differences between the emulated and host operating systems and implements even niche features like seccomp. A modular core enables FEX to be used as a WoW64/ARM64EC backend in Wine.

    Used by the new Steam Frame (https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe) which is an ARM64 Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 that will run PC and PCVR gaming titles.

    • geerlingguy 9 hours ago
      CodeWeavers' Crossover just released a Preview version for Arm that incorporates Fex and allows games like Cyberpunk 2077 to run: https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2025/11/6/twist-ou...

      I've tested it on an Ampere workstation, and was trying it on a Pi, but it seems with Trixie, there may be some bugs with both that and box64 right now, I was having trouble with both of them.

      • nialv7 6 hours ago
        Hey, it's that YouTube guy with cursed Raspberry Pi setups!
    • sitkack 10 hours ago
      Not just used by, Valve is sponsoring FEX.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903610#:~:text=Valve%...

    • LeonM 53 minutes ago
      > The heart of this recompiler is a custom IR that allows us to generate more optimized code than a traditional splatter JIT.

      I didn't know what 'IR' stands for in this context, but according to ChatGPT it is 'Intermediate Representation', explaining it as follows:

      > In compiler, emulator or JIT-compiler contexts, an IR is a representation of code that sits between the source (or original machine code) and the final target machine code.

      For those who are not into compilers: 'JIT' stands for 'just in time', so a JIT-compiler is a compiler that compiles code during execution of the program (game), just in time for when it is needed, instead of compiling it once before executing.

    • globalnode 7 hours ago
      Does that mean I can run windows games on my rpi? (In theory at least)
      • adgjlsfhk1 6 hours ago
        Yes (just possibly at ~2 fps)
        • GCUMstlyHarmls 1 hour ago
          Into the Breach is back on the menu.

          There's probably a mountain of x86 games that would not need to hit above 15-30fps to be fun.

  • pona-a 4 minutes ago
    [delayed]
  • cultofmetatron 10 hours ago
    I'n incredibly impressed by valve's commitment to playing the long game. It makes sense to have the frame by arm since the system is lighter and its clear this is just the trojan horse to get arm linux into every gamer's house. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with an arm steamdeck 1-2 version from now when the tech is ready.
    • sitkack 9 hours ago
      Too bad Arm doesn't allow architectural licenses, because this is exactly the kind of thing Valve and the FEX developers would want to extend the ISA to support. I bet we see a RISC-V backend to FEX in the next 6 months, it probably already exists in a private repo.

      FEX is the shootstring, extra special discount budget (not maligning) version of Rosetta. Apple should sell Rosetta to Valve.

      • jsheard 9 hours ago
        My understanding is that Rosetta sidesteps a bunch of tricky memory model issues by using non-standard hardware extensions only present in Apple Silicon, so even if Apple did share Rosetta, which they certainly won't, it wouldn't work properly on Valves hardware anyway.
        • fooblaster 8 hours ago
          yeah that is correct. The m series chips can turn on total store ordering memory model solely for Rosetta. There's also some hardware extensions to arm to support x86 condition codes in the hardware because it's way more instruction efficient that way.
          • sgerenser 8 hours ago
            The latter is now an optional feature in the mainstream Arm ISA now (FEAT_FlagM and FEAT_FlagM2). Similarly the “alternate floating point mode” that Apple uses to match nuances of x86 FP semantics is a standard architectural feature as well. The TSO option though is Apples own thing.
          • astrange 8 hours ago
            If you mean FEAT_FlagM, that's standard in ARMv8.4. (There's also FlagM2 and AFP that are optional.)

            The JavaScript instruction is cooler though.

            https://developer.arm.com/documentation/dui0801/g/A64-Floati...

        • astrange 8 hours ago
          It's not only present in Apple Silicon, it's just not required by the ARM standard. Fujitsu also has an ARM64 CPU with TSO.
          • lugu 1 hour ago
            Nice article on this topic: https://lwn.net/Articles/970907/
          • wmf 7 hours ago
            There are a bunch of undocumented flags and instructions beyond TSO.
            • astrange 5 hours ago
              Trust me on this one?
              • chadaustin 1 hour ago
                https://dougallj.wordpress.com/2022/11/09/why-is-rosetta-2-f...

                > Apple M1 has an undocumented extension that, when enabled, ensures instructions like ADDS, SUBS and CMP compute PF and AF and store them as bits 26 and 27 of NZCV respectively, providing accurate emulation with no performance penalty.

                • astrange 12 minutes ago
                  Oh yeah, maybe that one was too obscure for me. I don't think I've ever seen something use PF/AF…

                  You do want FEAT_AFP though, so you do want ARMv8.6+.

      • geerlingguy 9 hours ago
        Box64 already runs on RISC-V. Just, the available processors are so slow it's hard to even play 5-10 year old games.
        • snvzz 7 hours ago
          This means that, when the much faster chips implementing RVA23 arrive next year, they'll be immediately able to run Box64.
      • JoshTriplett 9 hours ago
        > Too bad Arm doesn't allow architectural licenses

        QEMU exists. I doubt they want the bad press of suing an Open Source project everyone is using.

      • nullbyte808 8 hours ago
        better yet, Apple should make it open-source on github.
      • scotty79 5 hours ago
        > Apple should sell Rosetta to Valve.

        Isn't Rosetta kinda bad though? And won't get much better because it's not open source?

        • MobiusHorizons 2 hours ago
          Rosetta performance is best in class to my knowledge, although they had the benefit of being able to add custom instructions and modes to the cpu to make some parts easier. Meaning Rosetta would not have helped valve unless they built the frame on apple silicon.

          As for not improving, it is likely that Apple no longer feels the need to invest in Rosetta improvements now that Apple silicon is so dominant and software support is already very strong, but nothing is stopping them from investing in it if they need it for example for gaming

          • scotty79 2 hours ago
            Rosetta is abandonware: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/abou...

            Why would a company on its way to the moon, entrust such an important project as translation layer between two major architectures to a single rinky-dinky corp that got rich selling common electronics marketed as luxury fluff, that's on the decline and has head so far stuck up its butt that it thinks it can do whatever it wants, instead of just write it themselves with support of the global developer community?

            Apple could never do games because there are no luxury games. That's completely out of their zone of comprehensibility.

            • dontlaugh 2 hours ago
              I don’t know if the two companies have such different futures.

              The games industry as a whole is in potentially terminal decline, have you seen all of the redundancies lately?

              • kokada 1 hour ago
                The AAA games industry with their multi-million budgets and "being too big to fail" mentality is on decline. It seems that anything that is not a new Call of Duty is considered not worth by the industry.

                But smaller games and indie studios are thriving. We got lots of very interesting indie games this year.

    • notepad0x90 6 hours ago
      Last I heard, they don't even have bosses there, a flat hierarchy. They vote on things and pick each other to work on teams and appraise performance. Perhaps that radical culture has merit to it?
      • bbminner 5 hours ago
        I've heard that to ship hl2 (or anything really) they had to stip some of that flatness somewhat.
      • systematizeD 6 hours ago
        How much did Gabe own Valve, 50%?

        Gabe Ownership/co-founder:

        - Valve - Yacht Companies - Starfish Neuroscience (Neuralink) - Submarine Companies

      • wmf 6 hours ago
        Anything works when you have infinite money and the company is privately owned by a chill dude.
    • theoldgreybeard 9 hours ago
      It’s amazing what you can do when you have a business that prints money hand over first and you have no obligations to shareholders.
  • Venn1 8 hours ago
    I tried out FEX on a modern ARM board with a discrete GPU. Really impressed with the performance.

    https://interfacinglinux.com/2025/06/30/fex-emu-gaming-on-th...

    • roody15 7 hours ago
      Wow decent results.. impressed.
      • Plagman 5 hours ago
        I would keep in mind that the results reported there are likely quite a bit lower (in terms of CPU-side performance) than what you could achieve in practice, because it's running all of x86 Steam+Proton in the emulator. In a pre-configured environment (like SteamOS for ARM), the Steam client and Proton itself would be native ARM code, and emulation would stop at the win32 API boundary (or at certain critical libraries' APIs if you're using Linux apps).
        • Lightkey 3 hours ago
          Fancy seeing the Plagman here. Last time I saw you was on Freenode (R.I.P.). So you are still working for Valve? ;-)
  • fooblaster 8 hours ago
    How does fex deal with the fact that the memory model on arm is weak and x86 is total store ordering. It seems like would need to hammer performance by putting memory barriers everywhere to handle all cases. Perhaps fex only works when there are well defined mutexes it can gain visibility into? anyone know?
    • jsheard 8 hours ago
      Looks like they do expensive conservative TSO emulation by default, but they're able to piggyback on compiler work that Microsoft did to make newer Windows x86 binaries easier to emulate. Since MSVC 2019 they annotate the executable with metadata that informs an emulator of when TSO is or isn't needed for correctness.

      https://fex-emu.com/FEX-2510/

      FEX also has settings which weaken or disable TSO altogether, favoring performance over correctness. You wouldn't want to rely on those for anything important but a game possibly crashing isn't the end of the world.

      • dbdr 3 hours ago
        So that optimization only works on executables produced by MSVC? Are those annotations documented and/or produced by other compilers?
    • trollbridge 6 hours ago
      It would be nice to see more Arm chips adopt Apple's approach (which fixes this problem) for Rosetta 2. Basically, Apple's chips can be switched into a TSO mode and a few other minor tweaks that make x86 code run much, much faster.
    • nialv7 8 hours ago
      I think that's right, there is no better way than just adding barriers. On Apple hardware it can probably make use of the special memory ordering mode, but on normal ARM64 there's probably nothing it can do.
  • skywal_l 2 hours ago
    Presentation at FOSDEM2022: https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/fex/

    A little old but still interesting.

  • yakaccount4 6 hours ago
    I believe a lot of the folks working on FEX are also core contributors to Dolphin, the Wii/GC emulator.
    • zozbot234 4 hours ago
      Nope, Dolphin emulates PowerPC not ARM or ARM64. Totally different architecture.
      • yakaccount4 3 hours ago
        I was saying some of the top contributors of Dolphin are also top contributors of this project based on GitHub data.
  • cubefox 2 hours ago
    One problem I see is that (e.g.) Qualcomm Adreno GPUs don't even run most Windows games well when executed natively under Windows, due to games only being optimized for GeForce and Radeon. I assume this problem only gets worse when trying to run DirectX games through some sort of translation layer with FEX/DXVK.
  • jasonjmcghee 7 hours ago
    Curious how this will impact the major games that are incompatible due to denuvo type stuff
    • paulryanrogers 7 hours ago
      IIUC that DRM involves kernel level tricks and attestation, which means it'll basically never happen. Online gaming looks similarly doomed.
      • sintax 1 hour ago
        Denuvo anti-tamper DRM doesn't use kernel level tricks, it's all userspace and works just fine on Linux/Proton. It's the kernel level anti-cheats that don't work on Linux. And some user level anti cheats (like AntiCheat Expert) that only work on the Steam Deck as they check the CPU/GPU of the system and refuse to work if it's not the one in the Steam Deck (which also means those don't work on platforms like the ROG Ally).
      • dralley 7 hours ago
        Plenty of online games work fine. Rocket League, Squad, Arc Raiders etc. are just the ones that I play.
    • sedatk 6 hours ago
      That doesn't even work properly on x86 Wine, so ARM is pretty much hopeless right now.
    • akimbostrawman 3 hours ago
      Denuvo DRM works on Linux and has for many years.
  • nullbyte808 8 hours ago
    Now we just need a decent ARM Linux laptop.
    • rollcat 8 minutes ago
      Anyone can recommend something viable for simple tasks? I don't need 32GB of VRAM, just a reliable machine for everyday tasks that's decent, lightweight, has a good battery.

      (I know I'm describing an M2 Air, but I'd like to explore alternatives.)

    • thehias 32 minutes ago
      Get a MacBook with Asahi Linux
      • thehamkercat 6 minutes ago
        Asahi Linux doesn't support M3/M4/M5
    • overfeed 6 hours ago
      Snapdragon Elite X laptops are plenty decent.
      • ben-schaaf 4 hours ago
        Not for Linux they're not. IIRC Audio and camera don't work, and firmware is non-redistributable and so you need to mooch it off a Windows partition. On top of that the performance on Linux hasn't been great either.
      • donkeylazy456 4 hours ago
        Qualcomm's linux support is not.
        • overfeed 3 hours ago
          That's true Qualcomm in general, but is fortunately outdated for the Snapdragon Elite X (and only the X). Qualcomm has been upstreaming patches to Linus' tree[1] - but only for the Elite X - the Elite P processors get the classic Qualcomm treatment.

          1. https://www.qualcomm.com/developer/blog/2024/05/upstreaming-...

          • wtallis 41 minutes ago
            You're mangling Qualcomm's branding to the point that it's impossible to be sure what you're trying to say. Qualcomm's current laptop SoCs are called "Snapdragon X Elite" or "Snapdragon X Plus" or "Snapdragon X", all derived from various bins of two SoC designs, and all pretty much in the same boat for driver support purposes. "Snapdragon X2 Elite" and lesser siblings are due in the first half of next year, so a respectable degree of Linux support would mean having driver support for those chips in an upstream kernel release now so that there might be a mainstream distro supporting the hardware at some point in the quarter after the hardware ships.