The Lions Operating System

(lionsos.org)

167 points | by plunderer 16 hours ago

10 comments

  • pjmlp 2 hours ago
    While folks keep discussing C vs Rust, what got my attention was MicroPython and Pancake (https://trustworthy.systems/projects/pancake).
  • cjs_ac 16 hours ago
    Presumably named after Associate Professor John Lions[0], of A Commentary on the UNIX Operating System[1] fame.

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lions

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Commentary_on_the_UNIX_Opera...

    • woolion 13 hours ago
      The mascot it super cute lion too. How can a project do everything so right? I was browsing some popular python libraries and they just slapped on the first image they got out of ChatGPT. It's nice to see care in the craft.
    • mlinksva 15 hours ago
    • santoshalper 15 hours ago
      It's developed by UNSW Sydney, whose mascot is a Lion. (Specifically, "Clancy the Lion"), so I am guessing it's probably that.
      • kragen 12 hours ago
        That's also where John Lions taught.
        • skavi 1 hour ago

              John Lions is not Lions OS
                 is not        is not
                   Clancy the Lion
      • imvetri 7 hours ago
        What does mascot mean
        • saithound 6 hours ago
          A mascot is an animal figure that represents a product or sports team. For example, the penguin named Tux is the mascot of Linux, and the mascot for the Brisbane Broncos rugby team is the horse named Buck the Bronco.

          Mascot is, unrelatedly, also a suburb of Sydney.

    • snvzz 11 hours ago
      Not presumably, but explicitly. Both in documentation and presentations by seL4 they consistently make a point to mention so.
    • mzs 13 hours ago
      aka the Lions book
  • fithisux 1 hour ago
    "but contains composable components for creating custom operating systems that are specific to a particular task"

    like reviving OSfree aka 64bit OS/2

    • Propelloni 1 hour ago
      It's an OS built around a verified and formally proofed L4 kernel, ie. a microkernel like QNX or MACH. The L4 is a venerable design reaching back at least 25 years, if not longer. It has seen commercial and research uses, e.g. the SIMKO3 mobile phones or the Fiasco distribution. The term "task" is specific here. Running Linux as a custom operating system is a task in microkernel lingo.
  • spencerflem 16 hours ago
    Very cool! I’m a huge fan of Genode, another OS that runs on SeL4. Does anyone here know how they compare?
    • panick21_ 13 hours ago
      Genode is a framework that can run on many places and on higher level has its own abstractions. Lion OS is based on Microkit the framework developed by the seL4 people that will also be verified. So Lion OS/Microkit is basically the outgrowth of the original seL4 research.
    • Y_Y 13 hours ago
      Unequal
  • fithisux 3 hours ago
    Aussies were supposed to progress with Darbat.

    It never happened.

  • snvzz 12 hours ago
    On recent news, LionsOS, as of about a week ago (I got notified via their announcement maillist), includes a router/firewall scenario[0].

    Do not miss Gernot Heiser's recent talk[1] at the seL4 Summit, where among other things he shows seL4 massively outperforming Linux in a web server scenario.

    0. https://lionsos.org/docs/examples/firewall/

    1. https://youtu.be/wP48V34lDhk

  • hulitu 13 hours ago
    > To be successful, many more components are needed.

    What is the purpose of this OS ? Can it mint Bitcoin ? Can it do fluid dynamics simulation ? Can it act as an interface to a database ? Can it host a database ? Is it interactive ? What kind of interface it presents to the user ?

    • oytis 4 hours ago
      One application would be safety and security critical real-time systems that also need significant amount of processing power
    • qubex 13 hours ago
      That’s a rather luridly practical view that’s entirely out of sync with academia and basic research that provides tangible benefits much further down the line.
      • lukan 11 minutes ago
        Yes, but basic reseach in IT is still not random, but usually has a clear goal, or at least some scope. Like indeed, focus on security? Focus on speed? Focus on reliability? Focus on energy efficency (because it is supposed to run on a tiny embedded device for long).

        And the gimmick here seems to be in fact, that it is supposed to be flexibel

        "is not a conventional operating system, but contains composable components for creating custom operating systems that are specific to a particular task. Components are joined together using the Microkit tool"

    • kragen 12 hours ago
      Those are applications, not operating systems. With occasional exceptions, you can run any application on any operating system.
      • mmooss 4 hours ago
        That begs the point: Each application will often run better on some OSes than on others. For example, high traffic websites usually aren't run on Windows 11.
    • charlycst 13 hours ago
      There is an example of interface in the docs: https://lionsos.org/docs/examples/kitty/
    • vrighter 3 hours ago
      no operating system does. That's application software you're thinking of. So no, it can't. But neither can windows, linux, macos, solaris, templeOS or any others
    • kjs3 9 hours ago
      Could have been done for fun. You wouldn't understand.
    • fortyseven 12 hours ago
      Yeah, Linus, what's the point?
      • lmm 3 hours ago
        Hardly a fair comparison. Linus wanted an OS that would run on his own PC and let him do his Unix homework assignments.
  • amelius 11 hours ago
    Mountain Lion is calling and wants its name back.
  • gethly 12 hours ago
    Oh no, it's written in C and not Rust. The blasphemy!
    • aloha2436 11 hours ago
      I'm trying to picture in my mind a person who is a fan of Rust and somehow against an OS with a formally-verified kernel no matter the language. I'm not having much success.
    • lovidico 6 hours ago
      Rust is supported by the [seL4 Microkit](https://docs.sel4.systems/projects/rust/), which is the core framework enabling LionsOS. LionsOS can currently run components written in Rust, and there are some WIP drivers written in Rust in the seL4 Device Development framework (judging from pull requests).
    • kjs3 9 hours ago
      At least someone hasn't complained about it being 'unix like', always without defining what the non-unix-like OS they want would look like, or where the software to run on it would come from.
      • pjmlp 2 hours ago
        First, we could start by what UNIX authors did after they considered UNIX done, looking at Plan 9 and Inferno.

        Then there are the OSes already done during the 1960 and 1970 outside Bell Labs, as possible ideas.

        As from where the software would come from, if we keep recicling UNIX, we will keep getting UNIX regardless of whatever cool features the OS might offer, as most developers are lazy.

        Hence why it is great that while Apple and Google OSes have some UNIX there, bare bones POSIX apps will hardly make it into the store.

    • snvzz 11 hours ago
      Rust, an immature language with fluidly evolving specification / reference implementation, is not suitable for high assurance nor formal verification.
      • steveklabnik 9 hours ago
        … except that Rust’s compiler has been qualified for several safety critical standards, with more to come, and has several formal verification tools as well. Amazon even has placed bounties (and paid some) for proving things about the standard library.

        Rust is not as immature or evolving in the ways you imply.

  • fifticon 3 hours ago
    if you rearrange the letters, you get the Linos OS.