Conventional Commits encourages focus on the wrong things

(sumnerevans.com)

217 points | by jsve 5 hours ago

58 comments

  • turadg 4 minutes ago
    Broken promise 1 (Automatically generating CHANGELOGs) is spot on, especially in a monorepo with multiple released artifacts. A single commit could be a breaking change in one package and refactor in another. But the changelog tools see one commit and include it in both changelogs.

    Another issue is that once the commit lands on trunk, you can’t revise the entry without editing history. You have to remember to fix it after the changelog is generated.

    Changesets (https://github.com/changesets/changesets) is a much better approach. We adopted it in Endo (https://github.com/endojs/endo/tree/master/.changeset) and it’s been a clear improvement.

  • hn_throwaway_99 3 hours ago
    As programmers I feel like we'll always nitpick and bitch over what the optimal setup is for rather mundane things (tabs v spaces, yada yada).

    I'm not saying that conventional commits are God's given best way to structure a commit message, but they are a defined structure, and I find it much more effective and important that some expectations be set around commit messages, and I think conventional commits are as good as anything.

    Like the author is making a big deal that they think scope is more important than type. I may tend to agree, but I think the difference between "fix(compiler)" and "compiler fix" is not exactly a hill I'd be willing to die on.

    The tech industry has tons of things that became standards even if they weren't optimal. E.g. if one were starting from scratch I think any sane person would argue JSON should support comments (sorry but Douglas Crawford's rationale for not including comments never made sense to me), better defined numeric formats, etc. But it was better in many contexts than what came before it, so it became the standard. I could believe that there is some other format that differs a bit from conventional commits that is a little better, but not really better enough to want a whole other competing way of structuring comments.

    • olzhasar 2 hours ago
      Defined structure does not constitute quality. A commit message can be loosely structured, but be very insightful and good at communicating the nature of the change. On the flip side, one can make a very structured but confusing or non-informative commit message. I generally tend to agree with the author, conventional commits do not solve the core issue of the poor commit messages problem.
      • bloppe 2 hours ago
        Conventional commits made it easier to generate changelogs and automate semantic version bumps. I suppose LLMs can usually do that the right way with looser structure, but in the before times it made a lot more sense, and even now is much less ambiguous
        • steveklabnik 1 hour ago
          Both of these things are discussed in the article. (changelogs and semver)
    • markbao 1 hour ago
      I’m all for standardization but you could just use this argument to keep any suboptimal status quo in place. XML is good enough and a standard. SOAP is good enough and a standard. etc.

      The claim is that Conventional Commits are good enough and standardized enough that having another structure isn’t really worth it. But “worth it” is subjective. I’d say that if you are making commits and reading PRs every work day, and the conventional commits format causes a little bit of friction, that friction can add up. Having another option other than seeing conventional commits as a law of nature gives options for teams who prefer it. (Most teams aren’t generating changelogs anyway.)

    • xena 2 hours ago
      I end up thinking that conventional commits is a good idea because you can make tooling force people to at least put one iota of thought into what goes in a commit message. I've had to review so many commits with the subject "small fix" that was not in fact a small fix.
    • theptip 1 hour ago
      I don’t have a horse in the race, but the OP objections ring hollow to me.

      - scope is important: true, but isn’t that derivable from the commit contents? An important sanity check on a diff is to look at the paths touched. (A “test” diff should not modify prod auth code.) but if you want to see this from —oneline, sure, I think feat(auth): is better than feat:

      - wrong audience: I don’t agree. feat commits _should_ actually describe the product-facing changes. You _should_ curate a nice stack with your no-op refactor changes first, then your small new feature change atop. This is the most helpful thing to include in a diff comment. You should put anything technical in comments so they are not lost, “why I chose algorithm X” belongs in a comment or DECISIONS.md. These are all tedious things that only psychos bother doing in a commit history at a fast moving company, but on OSS projects I think it’s much more important to stash context in the commit messages.

    • yifanl 27 minutes ago
      Some programmers prefer 2 spaces, some programmers prefer 4, why don't we compromise and pick a number between 2 and 4?
      • Groxx 23 minutes ago
        hence tabs. just configure your display for the width you like.

        though I do wish more editors had some kind of "ignore the spacing, display it semantically like [this]" and just let you insert whatever you wanted, converted to whatever is nearby, and didn't touch lines you didn't create. there's no reason to even have the debate or care about inconsistencies, you can essentially always* convert between them losslessly in terms of behavior.

    • hexasquid 53 minutes ago
      Introducing JSON scoped comments, far superior to JSON conventional comments. People who use those are our rivals.
    • yolkedgeek 1 hour ago
      Sidenote: Although JSON is very common, I argue EDN is the best data format out there.
    • SoftTalker 32 minutes ago
      > Douglas Crawford

      Crockford.

    • mmcnl 2 hours ago
      Who reads commit messages anyway?
      • theptip 1 hour ago
        Maybe more people if the contract is that it’s how you get your work into the release notes?
    • stefan_ 57 minutes ago
      I don't need a standard for this. This is just noise. There are some people who have some sort of mental ailment that makes them obsessively want to introduce "structure" "scheme" "patterns" where it is just innately nonsense. You do you, but stop trying to force it on people.

      Reminds me of the "scrum master" adjacent folks who could never cut it writing code and then branched into all kinds of things like "Git Flow" when having never understood Git to begin with. Peak bikeshed territory.

      • SoftTalker 24 minutes ago
        Reminds me of a place I worked at where a "naming committee" had to approve variable names. And no, you could not use "i" as an index in a one-line loop.
  • ralferoo 4 hours ago
    The real takeaway is that different projects have different requirements.

    In over 30 years of using source control, I've never once worked on something where it's useful to include the component (article calls it scope) in the description in a standardised way. It's obvious what components are affected based on where in the source tree the affected files are. Similarly "bug", "fix" or "feature" adds no useful value. It's important or it wouldn't be checked in.

    The only thing I've found useful, and which the article doesn't even consider, is a link / id for the relevant change request. The commit already contains all the information about what was done in the change, what's missing is the context about why.

    Even on my solo projects I include a JIRA reference in square brackets before the description. If it's just something I randomly decided to fix during the course of development, I'll create a short 1 line JIRA to get an id and explain the why there.

    • eikenberry 2 hours ago
      > The only thing I've found useful, and which the article doesn't even consider, is a link / id for the relevant change request. The commit already contains all the information about what was done in the change, what's missing is the context about why.

      The "why" is THE thing that needs to go in the git commit message. Capturing "why" is the entire point of that message and slapping a link to some external (and eventually absent) resource is not a good substitute.

      • bluGill 1 hour ago
        I find bug trackers and source control fad change several times over the life of my code. A number from a ticket system we no longer use is not helpful.
        • sokoloff 59 minutes ago
          But a number from a ticket system you are using is helpful and vastly more log messages will be read during the time when it’s active than after it’s been retired/replaced.
          • bluGill 49 minutes ago
            The switch was too recent in my case, I'm still seeing many numbers from the old system that I can't look up.
      • ralferoo 1 hour ago
        Respectfully, I disagree. A good commit message to me is something like:

        [PRJ-123] Changed blah to foo

        Blah didn't handle the wangle flange properly in some cases, foo is a better fit for customer requirements.

        The "why" that justifies the change, is already contained in the JIRA ticket PRJ-123 and explains exactly what the customer requirement was that necessitated the change. It will almost certainly contain a lot of detail that isn't relevant to the commit message, because that isn't the place to be documenting customer requirements, and probably relates to a number of other tickets. Perhaps the code itself might have a comment explaining the code change, if it's a non-obvious implementation, but otherwise the ticket is the best place for that information.

        Additionally, if a change requires multiple commits, you don't want to be repeating the justifications for the entire feature in every commit message. It's redundant. But the commits will all be tied together by the ticket reference in the commit message.

      • mmcnl 2 hours ago
        It is a good substitute.

        1. Usually the commit message is often too short to capture the "why" adequately. 2. It is very beneficial to capture the why in one single source of truth, and that usually is not the Git commit message in a business context. Hate on Jira all you want, but if you capture the "why" there, you can add comments, view history, add rich context, link dependencies, add rich context, etc. Can't do that in a Git commit message.

        • jsve 2 hours ago
          You can put that in the body of the commit message, not everything has to go in the subject line.
        • eikenberry 1 hour ago
          My ire is more directed at github PRs than Jira... but the same basic idea applies. You want a single source of truth and you want that as close to the origin (the code) as possible. Your history, dependencies, etc. are all in git already and can be highlighted there if appropriate. For general comments, git notes covers that.

          Business (ie. $work) will dictate whatever it wants and that is what get used but for anything I personally have control over, everything goes in the repo itself to prevent platform lock-in. For example, github's been going downhilll lately but all those projects with their history in PRs, etc. now needs to exfiltrate all that data somehow.

    • dualvariable 3 hours ago
      This is the way we did it when we used JIRA.

      For GH issues you can always navigate back to the PR discussion (which should have linked issues and other pointers in it) from the commit.

      Of course when we switched to GH issues, we largely abandoned JIRA and years later the instance got turned off and deleted. Now all those JIRA tags are entirely useless.

      IMO that actually argues for tight coupling between your issue tracker and your git repo. And what you really want is portability (which I don't see how you get other than with tight coupling). Ideally there would be open standardized formats, but as it is, github is the 800# gorilla that defines the format and as long as gitlab and other clones can slurp in github project metadata (or at least PRs) then that effectively gets you closer.

      But any way... Fixed, immutable pointers to an Atlassian product that you might not be using in 5 years is not a good policy. I'd sooner accept the policy that the git commits needed to stand entirely on their own and all the information about the "why" of the change needed to be baked into the git commit or the comments in the source (I think that fails, though, since everyone is overly terse in git commits and summarizes issues and loses information--and the back-and-forth dialog in a PR discussion is useful because it contains more than just one person's voice summarizing the reason for the change).

      • mystifyingpoi 2 hours ago
        > we largely abandoned JIRA and years later the instance got turned off and deleted

        Sorry to be nitpicky, but why did you abandon a tool that contained a lot of valuable knowledge? That's not the fault of GH nor JIRA, that's your fault. At least you'd back up descriptions + comments from these JIRA sources.

        • Macha 41 minutes ago
          The team that makes the decision to change issue management systems and not to back up the data is rarely the team most affected by that decision.
        • ralferoo 1 hour ago
          You can trivially export your data from JIRA. If the parent experienced a situation where valuable information was lost because the instance was deactivated, that's not JIRA's fault.
        • bluGill 1 hour ago
          I my case it was a different system that got bought out by (I won't say but your guess is likely correct) and the new license terms were unacceptable
        • oskarpearson 2 hours ago
          Like many tools defending their moats, tools like Jira don’t make it easy to get one’s data out.
          • ralferoo 57 minutes ago
            That isn't true though. It's very easy to export your data from JIRA. From your board, go to the List tab, filter the items to whatever you want, and then click ... and you can export the data in various different formats. Exporting as XML dumps everything.
    • splix 23 minutes ago
      Exactly. The commit message is supposed to be for the future developer, not to generate changelog.

      And the main case when that developer reads the commit message is when he doesn't understand _why_ that commit exists. Not what it changes, but what is the purpose of certain lines. So he runs "blame", sees commits, the original developers are not with the company anymore, the old JIRA may not exist too, and the only hint is the commit message.

      https://dev.to/splix/the-why-behind-the-code-2bb1

    • SamuelAdams 3 hours ago
      It is useful if you automate generating release notes. Then your notes are grouped by new features first, then bug fixes after. This makes it a little easier for non-technical uses to read.
      • pseudalopex 3 hours ago
        Commit messages are good release notes rarely.
        • llimllib 3 hours ago
          it's usually a "something is better than nothing" situation.

          If you have somebody willing to write custom release messages, that's definitely better; but conventional commits is better than nothing for it.

          • ralferoo 53 minutes ago
            Absolutely not. Commit messages should never be automatically passed through to the end-customer. I also worked in a place that tried it once and it was a disaster. Sure, a list of commit messages can be a useful start as a list of things that might want to be put in the release notes, but very rarely is the developer the right person to be explaining those changes to the end user.

            If a developer is being asked to do that, it's a good sign that the PM isn't doing their job properly.

          • pseudalopex 42 minutes ago
            They did not say generated release notes are useful if you care so little you would write no release notes without them however.
        • mystifyingpoi 2 hours ago
          That's right, but with AI help + some hallucination you can get nice looking release notes out of the worst mess of commits.
        • nkrisc 3 hours ago
          You can have a writer re-write them into acceptable release notes. It gives them a good and accurate starting point.
          • pseudalopex 41 minutes ago
            Closed issues are a better starting point in my experience.
    • literallyroy 3 hours ago
      Is the benefit of using a separate source that you can include images or something else I’m missing? Couldn’t you include context in the commit body?
    • oskarpearson 2 hours ago
      The handling of ticket numbers is covered in the FAQ (scroll to the bottom)

      [edit] At the bottom of https://scopedcommits.com/ I mean

    • chickensong 2 hours ago
      > Similarly "bug", "fix" or "feature" adds no useful value.

      If you're not using/tied to an issue tracker, embedding tags like these in git gives you some basic metrics.

    • adammarples 3 hours ago
      Pretty much everywhere I've worked recently enforces some kind of jira ticket number in the PR title
    • calvinmorrison 1 hour ago
      fixes/feature labels help when generated semver and doing changelogs if you publish them externally or internally.

      JIRA tickets can help to, its about giving context to why the commit exists.

      I find the 'component' label most helpful in large monorepos.

  • dotwaffle 4 hours ago
    The use of the word "chore" in many users of conventional commits has always riled me. I've always tended to favour the "linux kernel"[0] style of commit subject, which thankfully gets a mention here.

    [0] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v7.0/process/submitting-patc...

    • layer8 4 hours ago
      Completely agree, the attitude implied by “chore” is very off-putting to me. As if the rest should all be marked “fun” or “indifferent”. That kind of emotional judgement doesn’t belong in a commit message.
      • jonathanlydall 3 hours ago
        I’ve never personally used the chore term, but it doesn’t bother me to see it and I don’t feel it has a negative connotation.

        Cleaning my kitchen after a meal may be a chore, but it’s not an intrinsically bad or unpleasant experience most of the time, it’s just good hygiene and afterwards I have the satisfaction of things being clean. Not cleaning the kitchen feels way worse to me as it ultimately leads to other far more unpleasant situations.

        Such it is with updating dependencies, it generally needs to be done, so it’s good to do it, but it’s in no way noteworthy, so chore describes it perfectly, to me it signals that: “it’s work that needed to be done, but not for a feature, functionality change or bug fix on this particular code base, so you’re unlikely to see much change”.

      • gawa 49 minutes ago
        You just made me realize why I've always considered 'chore' the most ambiguous type. In addition to being loosely defined ("transparent change with zero functionnal impact"?), this one is indeed a word related to emotion. No wonder it has a more subjective meaning than 'fix' or 'feat'.

        This is why I never use it and almost always pick 'feat' to please the linter. Because I can't help considering that any change worth committing is improving the quality of the code in one way or the other, and thus a feature.

      • jasonjmcghee 4 hours ago
        I don't personally see people write this message (though I'm sure they do) but dependabot and similar use it.

        So now I associate it an automated pr vs authored

        • layer8 4 hours ago
          I remember HN discussions pre-AI where people staunchly defended the use of that prefix.
          • croemer 4 hours ago
            I use chore quite a bit in my human written commit messages.
    • gdevillers 4 hours ago
      I found an alternative word: "upkeep"

      Same idea without the pejorative aspect.

      • williamdclt 2 hours ago
        I wouldn't spend any sort of effort on this fight but that does seem quite a lot better
    • jsve 4 hours ago
      • embedding-shape 4 hours ago
        Richard van der Hoff that is, not Rich Hickey which I first thought had published something new and opinionated again.
    • julik 3 hours ago
      It is bad terminology, yes. But also - a pretense that you know the overarching influence of a commit ahead of time, which you don't - but once you have conventional commits everyone on the team and the LLMs have to spend time/tokens inventing that stupid nomenclature.
  • mh-cx 5 hours ago
    My main complaint with conventional commits always was that they don't include an issue number in the commit title. It's not even mentioned in their standards as optional or something.

    To me this is almost the most important information in a commit message. I don't know how often in the last 15 years I was cross checking the issue description referenced by some old commit to get the full context of a change. I also felt that this habit is kind of standard - until i had to learn about "conventional commits".

    I never got the hype.

    • jibcage 4 hours ago
      I personally prefer including issues as git trailers:

          fix thing in foo
      
          Issue: ABC-123
      
      Git has plenty of builtins for parsing and formatting these trailers, so you can easily create custom git log aliases that let you see them inline and parse them for use with CI.
    • jadar 5 hours ago
      Personally, if I am skimming a change log that is already limited in characters, I don’t care about ‘XYZ-999999’ in the main commit message. It’s good to tag as a trailer but I’d much rather see what the commit did than the Jira issue it came from.
      • willy1234x1 3 hours ago
        Yeah the ticket value falls off pretty quickly to me. If I pull that up and it's been a closed issue for years and code has been added, rewritten, people moved, and tons of other changes to where the ticket is just a historical artifact and doesn't need priority in the first line of the commit message.
      • andix 3 hours ago
        It's totally fine to put the issue number somewhere at the end of the commit message, and not in line 1.

        Most tools cross-link them as long as #<issue-id> is mentioned anywhere in the message. It's also useful the other way around, open an issue and see all associated commits.

    • chrishill89 4 hours ago
      IMO that is only a problem for those who demand that the issue key needs to go first in the subject (which again IMO is bad for readability). I don't see why you can't just stick it somewhere after all the conventional commits junk? Issue keys ought to be something that can be janked out based on a regex like an alphanumeric prefix followed by a number, so things like this "standard" have little need to set aside a space for it.

      Personally (without conventional commits) I tend to put them at the end in parentheses if the commit has something to do with that issue. But if there is a stronger relationship like that it fixes the issue, I put a `Fixes` trailer in the message as well.

    • AlbinoDrought 4 hours ago
      Interesting, I guess we've been doing it wrong this whole time, as we do `fix(ABC-123): some message here`, which ends up being linked great, renders very nicely into the automated release notes, etc.
    • beart 5 hours ago
      It isn't a standard, it is a convention. You can set a standard within your team to include the ticket id in the commit message.
    • a-dub 4 hours ago
      yeah this is the actual key. an actually useful title and a stable link to the discussion around the change.

      conventional commits are pleasing, but questionable actual utility. the code speaks for itself. the actually useful information is a well chosen title and the context for the change.

    • IshKebab 5 hours ago
      Why do you even want the issue number in the commit title? I find that super annoying and unfortunately GitHub kind of forces it on you if you use merge queues.

      It's fine for it to be in the description.

      • hebleb 4 hours ago
        If i'm looking at git history, the ticket number is the most useful piece of info to get more context on the changes for me
        • IshKebab 43 minutes ago
          Ok... but why does it need to be in the title?
      • alanwreath 4 hours ago
        It’s very helpful to know the motivation for the commit and if that motivation was tied to a client contract/feature. Especially in cases where a commit affects multiple files or even just one file so that all commits can be grouped into a feature/contract.
        • compiler-guy 3 hours ago
          COMPANY-1234 in the title doesn't tell the reader all that much about the the feature or motivation. It does tell the client, but I'm not seeing why that is better than having it in the description as a tag, or some other nice way of extracting it.
          • willy1234x1 3 hours ago
            Least of all when that ticket is older and so much of the code and the company has changed too. Like sometimes useful historical context sure but worth putting in the first line of a commit? I put it in the body with a link to the ticket or tickets as a footer, if someone wants historical context it's there.
  • wstone 20 minutes ago
    I totally agree with the sentiment behind this, so much so that I also made my own standard a while ago, https://commits-with-character.org/ an incredibly light addition to the Git Book guidelines, and also gives more priority to scope. It’s been working really well for me in my small projects.
  • codybloem 4 hours ago
    I quite dislike this style of writing titles. "Stop something". I seems very popular. It sounds very commanding and "I am definitely right about this". Why not write "In favour of something" or "A case against something" or something like that?
    • voakbasda 4 hours ago
      Why not be direct and advocate clearly for the position that you prefer? You don’t have agree with their position, but asking them to water down their words is weak sauce.
      • chrystalkey 3 hours ago
        Oh please. Public discussion is always a balance, and to answer your question: if the content is nuanced, the title should be too. If they mismatch some of your audience is unnecessarily put off.

        Ill add: I am personally put off in the same way your parent comment is, because hard stances are usually wrong, and I like a bit of nuance in my life.

    • zug_zug 4 hours ago
      Not as bad as "considered harmful" imo but still mildly toxic. I think the point is taking one rando's personal preferences (I'd prefer we swap the order of A and B) and trying to make it sound like something more than it is.
      • pseudalopex 3 hours ago
        > Not as bad as "considered harmful" imo but still mildly toxic. I think the point is taking one rando's personal preferences (I'd prefer we swap the order of A and B) and trying to make it sound like something more than it is.

        Mildly toxic was the same but worse in my opinion.

    • djeastm 4 hours ago
      Our interest in a statement is piqued more when it challenges our worldview. It's impolite to a lot of people, but the attention economy rewards it.

      Edit: Looks like they changed the title to be less provocative. Good for them

    • lardissone 4 hours ago
      I came to say something similar.

      I don't like conventional commits much neither, but let the people use whatever they want!

    • some_furry 4 hours ago
      https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-doing-math

      There is a meme that inspires some of this genre of title, fwiw

    • matheusmoreira 4 hours ago
      Because you don't get attention if you don't write deliberately inflammatory content.
  • RVuRnvbM2e 5 hours ago
    The thing conventional commits are really helpful for is continuous delivery. Every merge to main can be automatically tagged with semver and shipped because the thought that goes into tagging and versioning has already been done by the developers when they wrote the commit message.

    I fully recognise that it doesn't make sense for huge projects like the Linux kernel to do this. But for 99% of projects conventional commits combined with semver vastly improves the release process status quo and makes it easy to automate.

    • xigoi 51 minutes ago
      The article explains why this does not work properly.
    • WorldMaker 3 hours ago
      I like relying on `git tags` even in continuous delivery situations. `git describe` is often good enough for continuous delivery versioning `v1.2.3-4-gabcdef` can describe a commit exactly enough to make git happy and is semver-like enough to set expectations, even/especially if new `git tags` are only ever inserted on human discretion (this is breaking change so I need to tag a new major now). The only real debate with `git describe` format version numbering is if to better conform to semver expectations the first dash should be a plus or not and you can do that change with a quick regex if you feel it is worth it for whatever is enforcing your semver expectations (ordering versions correctly in a package manager, for instance).

      `git describe` is easy to automate for CD, but can leave version number decisions to people via `git tag` choices (and/or GitHub Releases) rather than trying to guess from commit history magic keywords.

    • herpdyderp 4 hours ago
      I do this on my OSS projects to automate semver bumps and it's amazing! At work, I also enforce "tags" (not git tags, just strings in the PR title) based on who cares about the change and then generate changelogs for the respective teams based on those "tags".
    • IshKebab 41 minutes ago
      Why does that need to go in the title though? Just put some magic in the commit bodies, if you want to do versioning in that weird way. Then you aren't restricted to a single word either.
  • tcmart14 35 minutes ago
    I personally like it for one of my work projects. Its the only one we use it on. Its a repo with the android and iOS app. I like the conventional commits because when doing releases, I can look between two tags and pick out what I need to put in the "What's new in this release" section. I try to not just do the normal, "bug fixes and various improvements," in that section, but what we actually did. Also helping make clear what went into a release branch/what needs to be cherry picked into a release branch. I also don't automate the generation of the "Whats new" section. I just take a look at all the commits between tags.

    We also tend to do something like

    bug-ios: <case name>

    feat-android: <case name>

    So we don't have generic stuff like

    bug-ios: fix memory issue

  • chrishill89 4 hours ago
    Want machine-readable? Use the footers/trailers.

    I can not say anything nice about conventional commits. The format takes up space in the most-read part of the message. The categories or types have little information. They can be replaced with an honest English verb embedded in the subject like a sentence. It also reads way better with just a sentence instead of three kinds of punctuation (:, (), !). Okay, I can tolerate an "area" in the subject. And that predates this conventio.

    At my dayjob we make a webapp for non technical people. I can write a changelog for that just fine (in norwegian). The commit messages are irrelevant to the users. And demanding that all commits should be good enough for an end-user changelog? That's not happening for us anytime soon.

    Use footers/trailers instead.

  • brzz 5 hours ago
    “The audience of a changelog is entirely different than the audience for a commit log!

    A changelog is user-facing”

    I'd say that ship has probably sailed. Most companies are happy with “Bug Fixes & Performance Improvements”. At least if they're not going to put the effort in, then a generated changelog is better than nothing.

    • pancsta 2 hours ago
      He confuses changelog with release notes. Doesnt know how to name commits and probably doesnt know how to name symbols either. Skill issue and he’s sad, now in public. Move on…
    • karmakaze 5 hours ago
      The best thing that I'd used for auto-updated software with weekly updates was to prefix user-facing visible commits with "uv:" Then each week we search for them and either use the text as-is or massage it slightly. We even got it into the product itself in the Help/Release-notes menu.

      Funny to ask to stop doing something I don't do or never even heard of. I typically only mark database schema migrations or other major things with special prefixes.

      • beart 4 hours ago
        I like this idea, but could see it working better as a git trailer to avoid adding noise to git log
  • Benjamin_Dobell 5 hours ago
    Odd. The main reason to use this style of commit message is for CI/CD automation.

    EDIT: I didn't see this covered in the article on my first pass. It is covered though. My apologies.

    The type of the commit informs the automated workflows how to handle the commit. This is why it comes first.

    For example, if you're performing CD, if you only commit a bunch of `fix: ` then only your semantic versioning patch version number is incremented. If you commit a `feat: ` then it's a minor version is bump. `feat! ` is a major version bump.

    Even if you're not using CD for releases, semantic commit messages are sometimes used to automate change log generation. Granted, your change logs should not typically include the Git commit messages themselves — those are developer facing, not user facing.

    • mcluck 4 hours ago
      The article addresses both of these pretty clearly. Semantic versioning gets borked with reverts and the automatic changelog is targeting the wrong audience
      • beart 4 hours ago
        The article is wrong about reverts (in my opinion). If a breaking change is introduced, and then removed, the removal should also most likely be considered a breaking change (both the addition and removal are changing your API). So it is correct that a major version bump should occur when reverting. Once a package has been published, the ship has sailed.
        • layer8 4 hours ago
          The issue is that if there was no release in between, or only a beta or similar, you now have two breaking changes indicated by the commits, although in sum there is none since the last official release.
          • beart 4 hours ago
            That's true, but depends on your workflow and release strategy.

            If you are releasing upon every push to main/master (following what semantic release and conventional commits provides you in terms of automation), then it makes sense to perform major version bumps for the reverts.

            If you have a manual release strategy, then it might not make sense to use these tools in the way they have been designed.

            • layer8 4 hours ago
              If you have actual dependents in a SemVer fashion, then this isn’t useful for those still on the prior version. What you’d rather do is decrement the major version again because it’s compatible with the prior version again. Those dependents who already upgraded to the interim version have to consider another breaking change regardless.

              And if you don’t have these kinds of dependents, then the versioning scheme isn’t important anyway.

              • claytonjy 3 hours ago
                release-please[0] allows you to do a manual version override in a commit, which would allow you to decrement the major version upon reverting a breaking change

                I think that could be simplified, so the tool can tell that a commit is reverting a breaking change and thus the version should be decremented, but at least there's an escape hatch.

                [0]: https://github.com/googleapis/release-please

      • Benjamin_Dobell 4 hours ago
        My apologies, I missed this on first read due to the indentation style. That said, I don't agree on the commentary.

        Why on Earth are people not writing commit messages for their reverts? They should have semantic commit messages just the same as any other commit.

        Unless the point is that they're not following per-commit CD, and if you commit then revert that commit before a release was made. That sounds like a process failure. Which of course, process isn't infallible, and neither is the automated version management. If you screw up, use an escape hatch — just like reverting a commit that had previously gone through code review and been merged.

        Re: change log generation. The article says change logs shouldn't have commit messages. I agree. Many tools (e.g. Changesets https://github.com/changesets/changesets) use the semantic commit type to sort change log entries, but require you to write those user facing change log entries separately.

    • xer0x 3 hours ago
      +1 I used this style to version bump, and wish the article gave suggestions on working alternatives.

      Lately I use CalVer instead of SemVer, so it hasn't been an issue. I like the idea of smart auto-bump for versions.

    • what 4 hours ago
      Use some convention for git trailers then. Having “fix” or “feat” in the commit title does not provide any useful information to someone scanning the log.
      • Benjamin_Dobell 3 hours ago
        How... how is this not obviously the absolute very most useful information?

        When I encounter a bug in a dependency of mine. Before I worry about submitting a PR, the very first thing I do is grab my version number and check the commit logs for fixes since my version number.

        If I'm trying to decide whether I should bother upgrading, I scan the log for new features.

        It's the title, not the details. The commit message body should contain MUCH more detail than the title.

        If you don't like it because it looks ugly. Sure, that's subjective. And actually, I agree. Because it's standardized though, Git interfaces could even be configured to trim this off and provide different visual styles for the different kinds of commits. The types could be used as search filters too etc.

        Now, I get people don't like the look of them. Neither did I when I first saw them. Then I started using them and found them useful.

        It's fine, people have different preferences, it's just a convention and it's not going to work for every project. The article itself just doesn't seem to hold any water.

        • compiler-guy 3 hours ago
          If one is writing trailers and custom formatters, then probably the information that the formatter uses should be even more structured that sticking it in the subject line.
        • jacobsenscott 3 hours ago
          This is what a changelog is for
          • Benjamin_Dobell 3 hours ago
            It's really not.

            If I'm at the point of contributing a PR to a dependency, I've already identified the root cause in detail. There's no way a change log should be going into that level of detail, or else you're just duplicating the Git log for no reason.

            Will the change log make mention of fixing the bug? Perhaps. But I'm going to want to read the technical details of the fix to make sure they've specifically addressed my issue, and not just a similar problem. What is the performance impact of the fix? Are there security implications they've explained in the commit message.

            I'm a software engineer, not an end user, I want the technical details of my dependencies.

    • drfloyd51 4 hours ago
      No no. You see we need to get rid of conventional commits so AI can make commits easier.
      • layer8 4 hours ago
        I’m pleased to report that TFA is unrelated to AI.
  • osigurdson 4 hours ago
    I'd much rather people think deeply about summarizing their work. This helps others understand it but, more importantly, helps the developer understand what they did. If its hard to summarize, maybe it should be tightened up a little for instance. Enforcing a "schema" might help a tiny bit but also can cause people to check out a little as it can feel like just another meaningless process.
  • weinzierl 51 minutes ago
    I used and use Conventional Commits in private and professional projects and I think they have a place.

    That being said, when I finally committed to using them something in me broke. Most of my career work was double faced. One face to the customer where you need to keep Tatemae under all circumstances (UI, Tickets, etc.). The other was the code and commit messages where you still kept your professionalism but you could be open and speak the language of your peers.

    This time is over, maybe for good, but a tiny part of me misses it.

  • sennalen 23 minutes ago
    The best commit message: is what is meaningful to a future you 1 week from now, no further otherwise takes up the least time to think about right now
  • akersten 5 hours ago
    The author's example of a conventional commit is not correct anyway IMO, which is maybe why they think the "fix" part is redundant:

    > fix: prevent foo from bar'ing

    The whole idea of conventional commit is:

    > fix: [problem]

    so the correct conventional commit would be:

    > fix: foo bar'ing

    which is succinct and perfectly fine.

    • jacobsenscott 3 hours ago
      None of this is as good as "free array memory before it goes out of scope". This is better than `fix: memory leak` - which is what most people would do. It's also better than `fix: free array memory...` because `fix:` is redundant when you have a good message. I get people want to build automation around this stuff, but just do that in a footer of a commit message where humans don't need to see it.
    • 0x457 4 hours ago
      Whole idea of CC is to write commits in away that is easy to generate change logs. If you utilize CC correctly or not, at best you get: commit log that harder to read, changelog that is hard to read and still requires you to write highlights (guess minor and path releases are fine).
    • chrismorgan 5 hours ago
      What you describe doesn’t match <https://www.conventionalcommits.org/en/v1.0.0/>’s examples, or any practice I’ve ever seen.

      > fix: prevent racing of requests

      Though the example in the actual specification, “fix: array parsing issue when multiple spaces were contained in string”, is more inconclusive (and frankly doesn’t really make sense as a description).

      • darknavi 4 hours ago
        I agree, the default change logging using something like semantic-release would result in this, which feels way off:

        # Bug Fixes

        - foo bar'ing

    • SebastianKra 4 hours ago
      yep. I'm on the fence about types generally, but "fix:" saves/standardizes a bunch of phrases like "fix an issue where", "prevent" or having to invert the message by describing the solution instead.
      • jacobsenscott 3 hours ago
        You never need to write "fix", or "prevent" if you write a good message. Nobody says "fixed the car by changing the flat tire" or "Go prevent engine wear by getting an oil change today. You say "Change the flat tire", or "Change the oil".

        You can do the same when you write commit messages. "Wrap user and account update in a transaction" - "Delete temp files after use".

  • mckn1ght 1 hour ago
    I like using conventional commits but I’ve often wondered if some sort of tagging/labeling using git-notes wouldn’t be better: https://git-scm.com/docs/git-notes

    I’m just unsure that the short title is the ideal place to put this kind of tagging info: the kind of fix, and optionally, the relevant component(s). I find sometimes that can take up the majority of the title.

    A forge could consume the git-notes and decorate a commit/pr accordingly. Heck, GitHub PRs already have a labeling system in place, just have to add some glue.

  • djdeutschebahn 33 minutes ago
    Thank you for the thorough write up! I just thought about this today and needed the set of arguments and examples you brought forward. Especially the pointers to NixOS et.al. were informative. Thanks!
  • julik 3 hours ago
    Previously: https://blog.julik.nl/2020/04/do-not-use-tickets-in-commit-t... with honorable mention of conventional commits. There is nothing conventional about them - it's ceremony that's wasting valuable characters that can have a better use.

    The article is 100% on the mark.

  • olivierlacan 2 hours ago
    Keep a Changelog[0] maintainer here, weirdly seeing this while deep into work on way overdue 2.0 "release"[1], which should be out very soon.

    I've had to contend with Conventional Commits both in the OSS world and at work as it proliferated from what seemed to me like robotic adoption by folks who were even loosely associated with the Angular ecosystem (remember that?).

    I've always had a stance with KAC that folks trying to automate changelog creation (prior to LLM rise, mind you) were focusing on the wrong thing. I still think there's a fundamental difference in focus between what you write in a git commit and what you present in a changelog.

    I know there are fundamental philosophical differences for folks who were used to HISTORY vs. NEWS vs. CHANGELOG but with the growing adoption of KAC-like CHANGELOG.md files and Release Notes (often not synonymous) I think we're thankfully past the weird era were maintainers dumped raw git log ranges between two tags and called that a changelog. I'm sure some still do it. But that's what Conventional Commits tries to replicate.

    What's really odd to me is that this assumes (broadly) that every single commit in a repository is relevant to the eventual version release changelog (or release notes). Even if you assume some CC types get filtered and deprioritized from generated changelogs by some tools, it's still a huge miss on what communicating about a release typically means: these change likely matter to you as a package dependent or direct user, while others were omitted for good reason.

    I'm trying to articulate that much more clearly in KAC 2.0 because there's a fundamental paradigm shift when a robot can now analyze recent work (yours or theirs) and craft changelog entries that appropriately shift the audience perspective from "git message for me/us in the future to understand this change" to "changelog entry for you/them to know what this group of changes means".

    [0]: https://keepachangelog.com

    [1]: https://github.com/olivierlacan/keep-a-changelog/pull/600 if anyone's curious and wants to get involved

  • sandstrom 4 hours ago
    I totally agree.

    If one needs to put metadata in commits, usually better to just put it in a Git trailer.

    https://git-scm.com/docs/git-interpret-trailers

    `Co-authored-by: Alice` is a common one, but you can have anything in there.

  • lemonwaterlime 3 hours ago
    The issue with all of these schemes is less about the format and more about the semantics itself. What are all the actions that can be done to a codebase and what is a controlled vocabulary that encapsulates those? Then it doesn’t matter what system you use.

    I spent some time recently coming to the conclusion that I did not prefer CC, but wanting some reliable structure. In the end, I found I was coming up with convoluted schemes that were getting in the way of actually solving my real problems and just settled on the tried and true:

        “When applied this commit will...”
    
        - Add <functionality>
    
        - Update <existing>
    
        - Refactor <while keeping same boundary behavior>
    
        - Remove <some subsystem or functionality>
    
        - Cleanup <documentation or style>
    
    I don’t consider this to be a complete taxonomy, but it does let me get on with my day and covers most things, especially when combined with thoughtful commit messages.
  • jacobsenscott 3 hours ago
    There's no benefit to any of this. Just write like human. It will be clear if it's a fix, or a refactor, or ?. Typically it isn't just one of those things.
    • chickensong 1 hour ago
      Making an opinionated absolute statement about something that's widely used and argued about isn't even logical. If nobody got any benefit, it wouldn't be a thing.

      The CC standard may not be for everyone, but having some convention is often helpful. git log --pretty=oneline of structured format gives you broad filtering that's useful. Just writing like a human doesn't give you that ability and you're forced to read every line.

  • cityofdelusion 4 hours ago
    Article is too opinionated IMO. I enforce CC on my projects because I don’t have the energy to police horrendous commit messages. It’s easy to enforce the CC format on the repo merge policy. I do it with the addition of a required issue ID as well.

    If I only worked with seasoned devs, I wouldn’t use it, but that’s just the reality of my work. It also has a bonus of forcing AI agents to write in the same form as well instead of their random personal flavor. Precommit hooks stop everything before it gets in front of my eyes for review.

    • Merad 3 hours ago
      > I enforce CC on my projects because I don’t have the energy to police horrendous commit messages.

      And does it actually accomplish that goal? I've been on several projects where someone pushed CC on the team with this reasoning. Every time my experience has been that you get the same crappy messages with a tag that may or may not be accurate.

      BTW, AI absolutely knows how to bypass pre-commit hooks and will do so when they come up with some reasoning why their situation is an exception to the rule. I've watched them do it. The only way I've found to strictly enforce things on an agent (tests, linting, whatever) is to use a claude pre-command hook that will block git commit if the checks don't pass.

  • christophilus 1 hour ago
    Yes. It’s just more bike shedding. Write helpful comments if you care about such things. Example: https://www.sqlite.org/src/timeline
  • epage 2 hours ago
    As a reviewer, I love type first because it sets expectations for what I'm going to look at. Similar if I'm bisecting or doing other history operations.

    I don't do automated changelogs or versioning but it also makes it faster for me to do so.

    I really dislike focusing on issue ids. I only want to jump to another tool if I need more information, so put it in the footer for after I've read what is there, like a front page news article giving you the option to go to the back to read more. Worst case that I've seen is people that think the Issue ID is all you need.

  • estetlinus 4 hours ago
    I have never been involved in a project where people make good commits. Having a convention at least forces people to make thoughtful one-liners.
  • rawkode 1 hour ago
    I have never once considered conventional commits to be about human understanding, but more about automation (release notes, changelogs, and workflows).

    The commit description and the pull request are for humans.

  • tomjakubowski 3 hours ago
    I'm quite fond of vimscript legend Tim Pope's guidance on writing commit messages.

    https://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-mess...

  • codingjoe 4 hours ago
    I think any notation is use case specific and should be adapted to beat serve its domain.

    However, actually writing a good commit message is an art form few have mastered.

    I wrote a small natural language linter to teach my teams meaningful technical writing: https://github.com/codingjoe/word-weasel

  • thom 1 hour ago
    Commits should have no information in them. Teams should be aligned on the design of their software, and all the information about that software should be apparent from its source code.
  • caraphon 48 minutes ago
    Why not both? Scope is definitely important. But type is also important: - prioritization: bugfix > docs - visibility: are we spending more time on bug fixes or features?

    Also, we let AI write the code, are we STILL writing commit messages by hand??

  • flakiness 4 hours ago
    I see more of these conventional commit-style comments recently and it feels like coming from Claude Code etc. It's a bit unsettling that not only training data but also random lines in the default system prompt affects this kind of software development norms in subtle and pervasive ways.
    • jsve 4 hours ago
      I've seen Claude Code aggressively use Conventional Commits, even when the project its working on doesn't use them.
  • chrismorgan 5 hours ago
    I have long despised Conventional Commits for pretty much these reasons. Yes, it’s structure, but it’s not useful structure. Of the five things it claims to enable, three are nonsense and the other two are actively bad.

    And it’s ugly.

    (But I suppose I am talking primarily about the first line part. The “BREAKING CHANGE” bit is potentially actually useful, though being incompatible with git-interpret-trailers despite leaning on git-interpret-trailers for other footers seems a bit crazy.)

  • jmull 4 hours ago
    There’s a much less awkward way to keep a change log:

    Keep a change log.

    • beart 4 hours ago
      This is not without struggles. Many times the changelog updates are missed. You can try to catch this in code review, but that could also be missed. So you can try to automatically verify the changelog was updated, but you can't force that as a pass/fail check since not all changes require a user facing change. Or your project maintainers simply copy the commit message and paste it into the changelog, and at that point, why not just automate it with something like conventional commits?

      Could/should the changelog be considered a first-class deliverable with care and attention provided? I think so, but I'm not in a position to exert direct control over that across dozens of repos and team members.

      • CharlesW 4 hours ago
        > Many times the changelog updates are missed.

        In my experience, LLMs are great at reviewing changelogs for potential gaps from a user POV (and even creating draft changelogs wholesale, if you're backfilling) based on git history.

    • jsve 4 hours ago
      I 100% agree. I found https://keepachangelog.com/en/1.1.0/ as I was writing the article which advocates for exactly this!
  • m_m_carvalho 5 hours ago
    As a solo developer, I rarely struggle to remember what changed yesterday. I often struggle to remember why I made a decision six months ago.

    Conventional commits are most valuable to me as historical context rather than as a release-management tool.

    The larger the project becomes, the more useful that context gets.

    • radlad 5 hours ago
      This sounds like what regular commit messages do. How are conventional commits specifically helpful?
      • d0mine 4 hours ago
        Conventional commits (especially with git emojis) show at a glance the blast radius of the change (eg whether it breaks the product itself or just some internal dev tools). Emojis help immensely when looking at dozens of commits at a time.
    • cperciva 5 hours ago
      That information should still be in the commit messages. "No functional change intended." appears widely in FreeBSD commit logs when code is being refactored (or, rarely, restyled).

      And the issue isn't whether you can remember what you changed yesterday; this is largely about making sure other developers can quickly identify relevant commits. If you're a solo non-OSS developer, this is entirely relevant to you.

  • docheinestages 5 hours ago
    I think some structure in commit messages is helpful, but not to the point where it gets in the way of effectively reflecting what the commit contains, why it was done, and any comments for future reference, e.g. potential regressions.
  • xg15 4 hours ago
    This entire essay is just about how it should be "<scope> <optional type>" instead of "<type> <optional scope>"?
    • WorldMaker 3 hours ago
      The essay gives a bunch of reasons to drop the "type" altogether and just use "<optional scope>" as prefix. The type either doesn't really mean anything or is redundant when writing commit headlines as English sentences. In a message like "Prevent thing from happening" the verb "prevent" is already basically a synonym for "fix". Similarly "Add" or "Support" likely implies "feat"/"feature".

      To some extent the "type" is simply about trying to limit/standardize the number of possible "verbs" to start a commit headline with, in which case Conventional Commits made the mistake of mixing verbs and nouns (fix and refactor are verbs but feature and chore are nouns) and adding distracting punctuation where English prefers none between the Verb and its direct object in a "Verb the thing" sentence. "Verb: the thing" only ever really looks awkward.

      But also do we really want to limit the possible number of verbs that a headline sentence can start with when making commits? "Fix" and "Prevent" may often act like synonyms but there are connotative differences. In some cases "Prevent" may be a shorter way to explain why something needed to be fixed in a headline because "prevent" also says "stop a thing from happening that wasn't supposed to happen" whereas "fix" alone may not yield that extra context. The top line of a commit should be a short and sweet headline and sometimes the cleanest way to do that is to use the full gamut of English verbs at your disposal to tell the right story as quickly as possible.

  • agentultra 4 hours ago
    Definitely agree that generating change logs from commits leads to confusing change logs for people that expect to see what changed between versions. A big long list of commits is too granular. A curated and summarized list of changes is much more in-line with what most people expect when reading a change log.
  • tantalor 7 minutes ago
    Old man yells at clouds
  • dang 3 hours ago
    Related. Others?

    ReleaseJet – Release notes from issue labels, no Conventional Commits - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847605 - April 2026 (1 comment)

    Why Use Conventional Commits? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46940152 - Feb 2026 (1 comment)

    Conventional Commits Considered Harmful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46019218 - Nov 2025 (1 comment)

    Conventional Commits Considered Harmful - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45420887 - Sept 2025 (1 comment)

    Conventional Commits makes me sad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44482546 - July 2025 (2 comments)

    A specification for adding human/machine readable meaning to commit messages - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40740669 - June 2024 (2 comments)

    A specification for adding human and machine readable meaning to commit messages - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34660646 - Feb 2023 (48 comments)

    Ask HN: Are you still using conventional commits? If not why not? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33525754 - Nov 2022 (4 comments)

    Conventional Commits - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30950377 - April 2022 (1 comment)

    I Hate Conventional Commits - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29924976 - Jan 2022 (1 comment)

    Conventional Commits - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24208815 - Aug 2020 (23 comments)

    Conventional Commits: A specification for structured commit messages - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21125669 - Oct 2019 (95 comments)

  • spit2wind 3 hours ago
    So much commit hygiene and fuss appears git induced. Use something other than git and the problems disappear.
  • IshKebab 5 hours ago
    Couldn't agree more with this. The commit type tells me almost nothing and just wastes my time skipping over it. Scopes are way more useful.
    • voakbasda 4 hours ago
      Many great developers seem to agree, based on the list of conventions use by the infrastructure scale projects covered in the article.
  • skerit 4 hours ago
    And then you have me, using gitmoji
  • ex-aws-dude 3 hours ago
    This seems very nitpicky

    In other words a perfect topic for HN

  • nailer 5 hours ago
    Asides from the well made points here ('scope is more important than type' etc).

    > something like fix, feat, chore, docs, or refactor

    'Docs' are also part of the program, they need fixes too, and features need docs. If the docs don't match the features because they're not being updated when the code is, the docs are a lie and waste other developers time.

    Also if you were writing a standard: why would you randomly abbreviate 'feature' but not 'refactor'? That sounds like a nitpick but standards require great thought, this is a bit of a smell that there hasn't been much thought into designing 'conventional commits'.

    Finally: the name 'Conventional commits' is a land grab (reminds me of when someone made a JS Standard and called it 'StandardJS', ignoring every existing popular standard). From the article, the *actual* convention is 'scope: work"

    - Linux

      subsystem: description
    
    - FreeBSD

      prefix: description
    
    - Git

      area: description
    
    - Go

      package: description
    
    - nixpkgs

      pkg-name: description
    • d0mine 4 hours ago
      In practice, when conventional commits are used with git emojis, they look like “scope: what is done” already (“<emoji> <issue-id> scope: …”)
  • esafak 3 hours ago
    The proposal, https://scopedcommits.com/, is not that different.

    My gripe about conventional commits is the redundancy: fix(ci): fix the foobar

  • skydhash 5 hours ago
    Mine is “ticket id - Imperative phrase”. Then I write a “why” description of the changes if needs be. As for personal project, I quite like the scoped commits style.
  • shmerl 5 hours ago
    I don't care much what it says as in "fix", "chore" etc, but for me the main benefit is breaking changes indicated with "<type>!", something like "feat!: ... ".

    This makes neovim plugin manager highlight the change differently which brings attention to it when you update stuff.

    So please do use it instead of complaining!

    I do like the suggestion of

    scope!: ...

    if it will be treated the same way with breaking changes reactions.

  • nintenddos 4 hours ago
    terrible suggestion, people are awful at writing commit messages and the type is really helpful when you're reviewing history and want to know things at a glance
  • lezojeda 5 hours ago
    [dead]
  • smrtinsert 43 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • animanoir 3 hours ago
    [dead]
  • murphomatic 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • gdss 5 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • bowlofhummus 4 hours ago
    I really dont care about commit messages. Just create strict rules for branches that contains issue nr + description, and squash all commits on merging the PR.