I don't understand why this is written in Typescript. This is a great example of how agents can write code (I'm sure they wrote `cf`), yet having fundamental computer science knowledge is still critical. Do not force your users to manage the dependencies of your cli. Do write your cli in a compiled language. Understand the reason for those decisions and tell your agents to use the correct architecture.
No it is exactly right mode for modern tech companies:
1) If it runs on my dime and my infrastructure I will optimize the hell out using most cleverly written Rust and what not and gloat about engineering prowess.
2) If it runs on users computers well then, we have carefully evaluated our strategic direction and come to conclusion that JS/TS/Electron option is the best way to go.
My read is that it's generally the teams that have been assigned to build a certain product that end up choosing the architecture that it runs on. So when we see TypeScript involved in TUI and CLI applications, most of it is just a repurposing of skill sets from that domain into the terminal. In an organization like Cloudflare, I expect that the developers who don't specialize in TypeScript are working on far more important problems.
Whether it was deliberate or not, I do not think it's a good choice. When agents can write in any language, there's no reason to pick the wrong tool for the job. At this point Javascript/Typescript belongs only in the browser. It's the suboptimal choice for every other environment. Especially for a command line tool. Even if the back-end is written in Typescript (also not the best choice imho), the clients need not be in the same language.
Typescript and the npm/JS ecosystem may be complex, but you don’t need AGI to figure out how to install a CLI built with TS. My agent can figure out how to install this.
Javascript is plenty fast, but only if it has enough time to JIT the code and can keep it JITed in memory. For long-running backed services, it's plenty fast, for browser things, it's the only option, but for the command line, it adds needless startup time.
Agents make this even worse because they don't have a "sense of time", so if they accidentally do something which causes startup time to increase dramatically, they won't feel it like a human dev would, and won't immediately start optimizing. Unless you have some specific benchmarks in CI that fail any PR which makes the code too slow, agents will just make things slower and slower.
It's not just the complexity. You're also vulnerable to supply chain attacks via NPM. It's also performance as you don't need the entire javascript runtime just for a CLI.
You can get a binary compiled by the author or a trusted source and none of the dependencies can change out from under you. This isn't possible with an interpreted language where the dependencies are resolved (often from dubious places like npm) at install and update time.
There is no more code, there are only specs, apparently. So I guess it's a typescript spec so your agent can generate its own CLI, in optimized native assembly of your local CPU and customized to your needs ? ;)
I think these are both examples that help prove my point. Neither of these tools benefit the user by being in Python and distributing a runtime just for a CLI tool.
"Claude, rewrite this in amd64 and arm64 assembly. Optimize it to the max, and make no mistakes. Oh yeah, formally verify it while there, may as well."
You laugh now but in 5 years when these LLM’s operate at thousands or tens of thousands of tokens per second on dedicated hardware in your phone… “might as well” won’t even be a joke.
This is a lot to like here as someone who pretty much exclusively uses the Cloudflare API via agents. Hoping (since it's built on top of Forge), some kind of native terraform support is also in the works.
Great when you're a solo dev deploying a worker, but would be incredible for production deployments if this could also just natively output terraform code.
This is cool, but I've never had an issue with agents working on Cloudflare by just making REST calls. With the rest docs, it knows pretty much everything about what kind of operations it can do. Is the CLI a subset of that or does in encompass everything?
I think the shape of clouds and services is going to change given current clouds are uxed for humans. Cloudflare is making the right bet. Specially the free agent report account. That's like a wonderful idea for building agent share.
Kudos to cloudflare on this, it looks like a great CLI, I especially like the `cf cli search`.
Related, Matt Pocock's skill for having agents generate an interactive bash script for things only humans can do (or should do), presented in the context of devops like activities
I have found that having the agents write scripts to use tools like this is better (less tokens, more reliability, fewer side quests) than giving it to them directly with markdown they may or may not follow on any given day.
The other benefit to this is that you can put scripts on either side of the agent and remove all credentials from their process, removing whole classes of issues you don't want to have to tell your boss about. CLIs like this are great for read-only debug sessions, but if you are going to make modifications to your cloud infra, keep doing IaC.
1) If it runs on my dime and my infrastructure I will optimize the hell out using most cleverly written Rust and what not and gloat about engineering prowess.
2) If it runs on users computers well then, we have carefully evaluated our strategic direction and come to conclusion that JS/TS/Electron option is the best way to go.
IMO -- it makes total sense within the existing Cloudflare tooling ecosystem.
Javascript is plenty fast, but only if it has enough time to JIT the code and can keep it JITed in memory. For long-running backed services, it's plenty fast, for browser things, it's the only option, but for the command line, it adds needless startup time.
Agents make this even worse because they don't have a "sense of time", so if they accidentally do something which causes startup time to increase dramatically, they won't feel it like a human dev would, and won't immediately start optimizing. Unless you have some specific benchmarks in CI that fail any PR which makes the code too slow, agents will just make things slower and slower.
Are there any languages doing something unique or are especially resilient in this respect?
Wrangler still didn't feel great to use.
Great when you're a solo dev deploying a worker, but would be incredible for production deployments if this could also just natively output terraform code.
> Introducing cf: the agentic CLI for the entire Cloudflare API
emphasis my own to highlight the key word missing in the HN title
I have been using the pre-releases with success, but this post could have waited a few days!
Related, Matt Pocock's skill for having agents generate an interactive bash script for things only humans can do (or should do), presented in the context of devops like activities
https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/produc...
I have found that having the agents write scripts to use tools like this is better (less tokens, more reliability, fewer side quests) than giving it to them directly with markdown they may or may not follow on any given day.
The other benefit to this is that you can put scripts on either side of the agent and remove all credentials from their process, removing whole classes of issues you don't want to have to tell your boss about. CLIs like this are great for read-only debug sessions, but if you are going to make modifications to your cloud infra, keep doing IaC.
Did you mean to link to /skills/engineering/wizard/SKILL.md ?
thanks for surfacing this for everyone
link: https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/engine...